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Before I even began my interview with the mighty Winston Peters he was on great form, spotting the Photoshopped Critic image of Peter Dunne smoking a fat joint and determining, after a lengthy pause, “it’s a fake.” Say what you will about Winston, he’s one of the most famous politicians we’ve ever had, and he is supremely slippery. We chatted for about 20 minutes – mostly about student issues, but also drawing in some ideas I’ve brought up in previous write-ups. What follows below is an abridged version of the interview, but the full transcript is available at critic.co.nz/winston.

So the first thing I want to talk about is the fact that the youth vote is a sector that is almost untapped, because we have such little voter turnout. And I was wondering what sort of policies you would advocate for in order to increase the youth turnout and what you’d bring to the table for the youth of New Zealand?
Well, there’s no doubt we’ve got a lot of policies that are pitched towards the interests of young people; their place in this country, their future, their education, their employment in the kind of country they want to live in. This is all based on where young people would want to be, wherever they want to live in NZ. So, the question, I think, is not so much that, I think it is – why don’t students vote?

Exactly, what’s the biggest barrier?
And the answer to that question is they’re a bit hedonistic, they think that there’s nothing … of interest to them, that the transient things that they’re currently engaged in is a part of their current learning process, and there’s nothing new in that. That’s been the way for the last 60 years. Young people are not voting or will not take an interest, so that many parties have found you start university branches, and it’s been an extraordinary amount of work to try and keep them alive, and then you find that the, uh, how should I put it, the pass-through rate is just so high. I don’t think that NZ First is able, more than any other political party, to answer that question, and I suppose we’re working on the new technologies that are available, to get to them and see if we can get turnout that way. […]

Fantastic. So, in terms of issues that students are focused on, it very much has to do with money. Money now, money when we’ve finished our degrees, how much money we’re putting into our degrees; so what sort of policies are you for? Are you for a universal student allowance?
The first party ever to talk about and promote a universal student allowance was NZ First.

Oh, really?
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, but we were the first party to advocate that in this country.

When was that?
1996.

1996. Good stuff. I’m going to look that up. What about fees? Are you – ?
Well before we even formed New Zealand First, I was saying that the biggest one-off education equation in the education budget in this country was going to be defaulting student debt. That was what I said way back in the early nineties, and I’m sad to be proven true. Our policy on student debt is to have a range of parts of this country where a student can get serious discounting of their student debt, a range of occupations in this country where they can get serious discounting of student debt, or third, if they can arrange for earlier repayment, at a much faster rate than that they have been prescribed to do, then we will halve that debt. […]

Cool. So I’m assuming you don’t support National’s tactic of Student Loan Amendment Bill (No. 3), which specifies that overseas repayments, if they’re not made, can mean students can be criminalised?
That’s going to bring in, at maximum, fourteen million dollars. Right? You’ve got a multi, multi-billion dollar bad debt, and they’re going to get fourteen million out of it. Uh, it’s only a sort of quantity surveyor approach to politics who’d come up with that solution. I sat on the select committee and opposed the bill all the way, because it is ridiculous.

[...]

Okay. Just to change tack a little bit, now, your favourite question. [Let’s say] I’m a voter. I like New Zealand First. I like Labour. I don’t like National. How can I trust that New Zealand First will truly represent my interests if you won’t disclose who you’re going to get into bed with after the election?
Alright. There’s five months to go. Have you heard all the policies yet?

Nope, some of them, uh, don’t exist.
Yeah, but they might exist, they might be great or they might be terrible. So you surely want to know that before you make up your mind, wouldn’t you? The second thing is, you could spend all your time talking to one party about the outcome and that party not even make it. So you’ve just wasted a whole lot of critical time in the campaign talking to them about something that might not eventuate. The third thing is, in a recent survey, now this is unusual, this actually shocked the political scientists, was, a significant majority of people in this country, including 35 per cent of National voters, don’t like pre-election deals. They’re sordid and unsavoury. And I happen to agree with them. See? Three reasons why I’m doing what I’m doing.

But you don’t wanna … allude to any sort of particular … was there any truth to the idea that you’re the MP going to the Internet Party?
There is no truth in that whatsoever ... A party like New Zealand First is not going to have a German running it. I mean, a German with a criminal record!

The raid you spoke about quite a lot in Vote Chat. Um, another thing you said at Vote Chat was, uh, you said journalists are being starved of information, so –
No, they’re being starved of resources and funding to do their job properly. […] There are some seriously good journalists in this country, but most of them are being starved of resources, time to do their job properly, and that’s a great disappointment. […]

So, um, I have time now, so could you tell me a secret?
Er, well, um, your voters don’t vote enough, so … I’m going to drop this bombshell when there’s a huge audience!

There will be if you drop one!
There possibly will be! And they’ll think “why on earth did he drop it down there?”

I’m sure a fair few people read Critic …
Uh, for a surprise, […] look, when Helen Clark called up after the [2005] election (National called up too), but when Helen called up, and I looked up all the numbers and what have you (on election night you can see the numbers anyway). But I didn’t stop with that, I thought before I go back to her, I’ll go and see Peter Dunne and say, “Peter, if you want to be part of this, are you in or are you out?” And, of course, he was on the out then, but then he would be in. So now I go and see Helen Clark, not with one party, I’ve got two parties. More powerful than I was before, wasn’t I? I seriously got their attention, I walked in and said “not just me, the United Party as well. I’m taking power with them.” Now. Why would you compromise that brilliant chance to get everything that you want by telling people before what you’re going to do? See what I mean?

Democracy… transparency…
Ah, now you’ve given me the fourth reason I forgot. Democracy is what the people are about, and they’ll decide the election, and that’s why I’m waiting until they speak. So you say it’s democracy; if I say I’m going to do this, right, so that what you’re saying to the press is “I don’t care what you do, it’s all over-rover. We’ve decided the government five months out.” Now, I’m sure you’re pretty upset with that.

Now, I have one last question. Shoot, shag, marry: Jenny Shipley, Helen Clark, Jeanette Fitzsimons.
Um, there’s no way, having avoided half your questions in this interview, that I can answer this one! […] Um … no, I have to admit, there’s nothing that I could possibly answer on that question that’s going to add to my political credibility, my political longevity, or my sense of sanity when I go to bed at night!

Okay, we have a parliamentary alternative, where you can reject one – reject them completely, re-elect one, or realign one, so one who you think should go to another party.
[...] No, Fitzsimons is in the right place, Shipley, well, she’s all over the place, and Helen Clark belonged to the right party. So the only one who could go to another party would be Shipley. The ACT Party.

You heard it here first. Maybe a bit late, but, um ...
Before that story goes South completely. But, mind you, her turning up there would bring about that result.

Just like a certain Brash.
Yes. Well that’s unbelievable, actually. Did you see his book?!

I saw the photos of him regarding his book, which were him with an open shirt ... He was photoshopped in a number of ways.
It’s sad actually […] You know his book, know why they called it Incredible Luck? Because he’s got no talent.