On the evening of August 23rd, 10 Ōtepoti mayoral hopefuls, all locals, congregated in Union Hall for a night of debate and discussion with students. Lured in with the appeal of free food and subsidised drinks, there was a decent sized crowd that came out for the evening, a mix of both students and the general public. Our culture editor Annabelle, (and a gaggle of reporters), went along to hear what the candidates had to say, and give you their hot takes of the night.
The initial vibe check was predictable. It took exactly three minutes before Lee Vandervis got on stage and asked the crowd if he had to wear a mask, interrupting OUSA President Melissa Lama. The audience informed Lee that yes, he should wear a mask. He agreed, and took a seat beside Jules Radich of Team Dunedin and Richard Seager. In the middle was current Mayor Aaron Hawkins, who looked like he was already a bit fed up by the whole fiasco. Beside Aaron sat Otago student Jett Groshinski, Councillor and theatre enthusiast Carmen Houlahan, and Councillor Sophie Barker. Sophie definitely had cool mom vibes, and looked like she’d absolutely smash back a sav with the girlies. On the end was Mandy Mayhem Bullock, a Waitati local who’s resumé includes being a funeral and wedding celebrant, egg donor and circus ringmaster. Beside Mandy was David Milne. Milne is an entrepreneur and father of four; he emphasised that he’s ALL about efficiency and getting shit done – regardless of whatever council processes might get in his way.
With the candidates all settled in, the debate began. Melissa kicked off by asking them why students should care about local body elections, considering the general attitude of disinterest toward them. Aaron Hawkins started off by admitting that he hadn’t voted in a local election until 2010 when he voted for himself. At least he’s honest about it. He went on to say that “everything we know and love about this city is the result of local politics and decisions that local councils make”, and that local governance is key when it comes to solving and mitigating complex problems like climate change. Richard said that “you have to live here for four or five years” as a student, which is one of the reasons that local governance matters, especially when it comes to the rental market. “The houses aren’t up to standard, and the landlords have the upper hand. Why do you have to pay a month's rent when you aren’t here?” he asked. “You should care about what’s going on while you’re here”.
Jules gave a personal anecdote about how involved he was in local government during his time here as a student, especially when it came to eco-friendly public transport, which was a bit of a slay. He finished off by emphasising the importance of democracy, and that we should all get out there and vote. Up next was Lee, who emphasised that local body politics affects everything in life, from the rent you pay to the cleanliness of the streets, to whether or not our beloved Hyde Street can go ahead. “It affects how much fun you’re going to have”, he finished.
Dave Milne’s answer was some sort of attempt at a metaphor, saying that voting was like “one drop” in the waterfall of democracy or something like that. Mandy and Sophie both offered a similar sentiment. “You are the voice of our future! Democracy is YOU!” said Mandy. “You can get your voice heard” said Sophie, before making a remark about how old the rest of the council was.
Feeling slightly underwhelmed by the generic preaching, it was time to switch to the next topic: Te Tiriti. Immediately, the tension rose as Melissa asked how each candidate would uphold Te Tiriti if elected. Obviously, the issues surrounding Three Waters, co-governance and Te Tiriti have been a hot political topic, and you could see people's fists clench and eyes widen as Vandervis took the mic. God help us all. He started off strong, criticising the Memorandum of Understanding the DCC currently has with Kāi Tahu, the local iwi. “The [Memorandum of Understanding] said that any decision made needs to be checked with Māori to see if it is of interest to them” he began, “Then, they have to listen to Māori first… this M.O.U has slumbered over the last 10 years”.
Jules followed up, saying that the Treaty “guarantees equal rights” for Māori and Pākehā, and acknowledged the difference between The Treaty and Te Tiriti. Jules said that “communication between all members of iwi and councillors will make a very inclusive consensus building team,” and that this is his personal commitment to The Treaty. Up next was Richard. “The Treaty was written 180 years ago, I had a read of it this afternoon” he said. Richard’s response to the question was beginning to sound a lot like your conservative grandpa at Christmas lunch. “The Treaty guarantees the protection of Māori under Queen Victoria, and my commitment to the treaty is to treat it as was written at the time, and not as was rewritten in the 1990s”, bringing in real 1840 vibes. With that out of the way, Aaron took the mic and began to discuss the work the current council had been doing. Aaron noted that while there is a difference between Te Tiriti and The Treaty, the council currently works within the framework of The Treaty. Aaron said he was proud of the Treaty analysis proposals the council had implemented, meaning that any policy the DCC wishes to enact is analysed and looks at what the Treaty related implications could be. “At a political level, the mayor must have a strong relationship with mana whenua,” he said. “We’ve taken 180 years to get to the starting line of this work and we continue to build on it and we can’t expect Māori to do our jobs for us”. Aaron’s answer was pretty based, and he definitely schooled anyone who’d spoken before him.
Carmen basically reiterated everything Aaron said, that there is a difference between the two documents, and that engaging with mana whenua is important. Carmen then said that Māori have “low” crime rates and health statistics. “A city should be judged on how their most vulnerable are treated, and I would work to build those relationships” she said. She then went on a tangent to talk about how she wanted to find the special edition Whittaker’s Miraka Kirīmi chocolate, and she doesn’t understand why people are just so upset by that. Jett didn’t say too much, but reiterated the importance of continuing the relationship the council has with mana whenua.
Sophie Barker followed up, saying that she voted for mana whenua representation on the council, and that she was proud of the new Māori Strategic Framework that the council had been devising, which was going to be a good step forward in working towards partnership and Treaty implementation. Mandy Mayhem said that she also wants to continue partnerships with Māori, and believes in a co-governance model for council. Mandy said that she is very involved with the community at Pūketeraki Marae in Karitane near her home, and that her current egg babies are in fact Ngāti Porou.
Up next was Dave, who took a slightly different approach in answering this question. “I’m sympathetic towards Māori” he said, before trailing into a personal anecdote about how he has integrated te reo Māori through his teaching jobs. “The Māoris are heroes,” he said. “They are kind and smart and nice, and we live here by their kindness”. Dave then began to get flustered, “I call on everyone to remember the history of the country” he said, before passing the mic off. Dave seemed to mean well, but perhaps his passionate answer was better in theory than practice.
Melissa then handed questions to the floor. One student got up and asked the candidates, given their different political backgrounds, what they made of Critic’s census, which showed half of students plan to vote Greens in national elections. “I think you’ve got a biased sample there” said Richard. “I know there are some students who vote National. I voted Greens in 2017, and I won’t be voting for them again”. Richard got fired up saying that he “can’t stand” what the Greens have turned into. “You’ve got Chlöe Swarbrick gaslighting the country” he finished, much to the crowd’s confusion. Mandy then chimed in: “I vote Green! We need to address a whole lot of things, and I love Chlöe Swarbrick” she said. Aaron followed on, saying that the census demonstrates the concern the student body has surrounding climate action and wellbeing. “That is the direction that the council has been going, and it is my commitment to continue that work if I am lucky enough to lead the council,” he said. Up next was Vandervis, who trailed off on a story from back in his glory days about how he loved the German Green Party. “I sometimes vote Green, I often vote Labour, but I won’t be voting Labour again” he said. “Vote for whoever the underdog is, if you give one party too much power, they run away with it”.
Sophie said she voted Green in order to keep Labour focused on climate action, while Carmen said she can totally see why students vote Green given Chlöe Swarbrick’s push for a universal student allowance. “I thought ‘wow, if I was a student I’d love that’, I can see why it’s appealing” but sadly things “don’t work like that in council”. Jules digressed slightly, saying that “the climate crisis is a global crisis, and we need to do our part in the world” but we have made little progress on emissions reduction. “My team's vision is for greater sustainability and to do something about climate change, and reduce emissions”.
Shit hit the fan when an audience member stood up and asked the candidates for their thoughts on whether or not trans women should be allowed to use the female changing rooms at Moana Pool. If the earlier comments on Te Tiriti were anything to go by, we were in for a ride.
Aaron kicked off by saying that “trans women are women,” and left it at that. Richard chimed in with a diatribe replying that “trans women aren’t women”, and that it’s entirely up to the women of Dunedin to decide if they want to allow trans women into their facilities, so it should be put to a “referendum”. Jules said that “trans women are women” but “anatomical males going into a changing room” is something he doesn’t agree with, and that's why family changing rooms exist. “Family changing rooms are for families, it isn’t the job of the DCC to build new rooms for the trans minority, I think that people do their best to make sure everyone feels safe and accommodated” said Lee. “I don’t think it’s an issue that needs to be dealt with at a policy level”.
Mandy chimed in again, saying she wanted to have a “safe and inclusive city”. “There is no one flaunting male parts, it’s also nobody's business, no one is swinging a penis around for God’s sake”, she said. Sophie followed up by saying that “trans rights are human rights, and I object to some of what I’m hearing tonight”. Carmen said she “didn’t have a problem with it” and pointed out that “there are cubicles [in the women’s rooms] people can get dressed in… Trans women don’t go into a dressing room to do sinister things, I think we’re all adults here, we need to have common sense, and we need to support all genders in our cities.” Dave then followed up with quite possibly the biggest dichotomy we’ve heard all night: “I’m pro-LGBTQ, it’s a contentious issue at the moment, we don’t need to debate ‘what is a woman’ beyond it being an adult female”. But then: “It’s a question for me if there are any male parts around, the world’s a risky place, as a Dad with three young girls.” Dave then repeated that he is still “very pro-LGBTQ.” The audience wasn’t stoked.
It is worth noting that despite some of the candidates opining about the supposed threat to cis women posed by trans women in bathrooms, all of the female candidates had no problem sharing the facilities with trans women.
The debate was nearing the end, with one final question; From the shutdown of student bars, to the infamous break in of Sammy’s early this year and the result of Covid lockdowns, how were these candidates going to ensure Dunedin’s music scene would be kept alive?
Carmen started off by proposing the idea of a protective status for the Dunedin Sound given how much it’s been used for the city’s marketing in the past. “I also want to see a decision made on Sammy’s, and how we can protect and encourage more live music. I want our city to be vibrant, I want live music in our cafes and bars”, she said. “We have a lack of student pubs, students are having parties in their flats, we need to have safe venues”. Carmen basically said everything without saying anything at all. Then it was Mandy’s turn: “Every Friday at lunchtime I put live music in the Octagon… The Octagon is not a colourful or lively or exciting place, I am providing free music to people, supporting the live music scene”. Turns out Mandy is also the mind behind the Kate Bush red dress flashmob. “My whole objective is making that place lively,” she said. “In fact, I’m off to Catacombs after this! Save the music scene!” she yelled. Honestly, the more Mandy spoke, the more the room seemed to listen. Preach it, sister. Sophie said she’d recently met with someone from Save Dunedin Live Music. “It’s all good to look in the past and talk about the Dunedin Sound, there’s a whole lot of conversation about it, but we need to see more about it”. Again, she didn’t actually offer any solid plan or proposals.
“The DCC owns a number of buildings it does nothing with that bands should practice in” said Lee. Who knew Vandervis was into rock and roll? Well, everyone who read his Wikipedia page would know he was formerly an acoustic engineer and founder of Vandervision (audio and video rentals). “What the Dunedin music scene needs is bands that get the opportunity to practice and get to the level where they are producing a world class product”.
Aaron came in swinging with some details. “The answer to how we support our music community is three-fold: we are reviewing acoustic sound level [restrictions] which will happen early next year, how we go about monitoring the enforcement of noise control, all of that will be pulled together in the Live Music Action plan” explained Aaron. The Live Music Action plan is set to be presented to the council in January. “It needs to be funded adequately, and that’s something I’m keen to support,” he said.
Jules blamed the lack of live music in Dunedin on students not spending enough at bars. “We had lots of bands back in my day, it has been sometime, but the core issue is the spending of crowds. An analysis on the average spend was $1.80 per person, so the thing is it becomes difficult for everybody concerned”. Classic. Richard echoed a similar sentiment. “You need to have expendable income to see a band play, I don’t think there’s a lot of that around after this Covid nonsense, I don’t think people have the money”.
That essentially wrapped the evening up, as the crowd scattered off and the candidates attempted to talk to some students who clearly just came for the free food and drinks. There are some good candidates standing, and some less than great ones, and no matter your stance on which are which, please make sure you get out and vote before October 8th. Voting opens this Friday. Please, your city needs you.
One liners:
Vandervis: Back in MY day…
Radich: It’s not that simple.
Milne: It IS that simple.
Seager: Going back to my last point, which made some people upset…
Hawkins: Full disclosure, I didn’t vote as a student.
Houlahan: We can’t give you free money.
Grohinski: I don’t know.
Barker: The mechanizations of Council…
Mandy: I’m off to Cats after this!